Curse

Sleeky101 · Feb 24, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

~Inspiration from Spura

Again, things will be ranked from 1 to 5, 5 being the best. I will comment on the skill in general and not have pluses/minuses for each thing.

I'll save further comments about skills and possible builds for replies.

Domination:

Arcane Thievery: I guess if you feel lucky, but you are just trading a skill slot for a skill slot. There is much better out there. 1

Backfire: Often a staple of the domination line. Can kill unskilled casters/monks or cause skilled ones to rethink what they are doing. On monks you are almost guaranteed to see a remove hex next, which you can interrupt. 4-5

Blackout: Was worth taking when it was ranged and 10seconds, but now, no thanks. 1

Chaos Storm: AoE Draining. I haven't really found much use of it. Possibly for Dias maps, but most casters will get out of the area quickly. 2

Cry of Frustration: Only interruption that can get any skills and not spells. Useful as a first interruption when everyone is starting to cast their openers as a group. 2-3

Diversion: A quick recharge time, unlike most of the interruptions in the domination line. One of the solid answers to spammable spells (such as orison) and doesn't require a high attribute to be very effective. 5

Empathy: PvE (bosses)- Yes. PvP- No. Sure you can combine it with other damage dealing spells when people attack, but there are better ways to go about dealing damage. 1

Energy Burn: Solid damage spell in the domination line. For an interruption build, this depends on if the build wants to try and assassinate a monk, or disrupt him. 3-4

Energy Surge: Take Energy Burn and thank yourself whenever you use your elite. 1

Guilt: Fire and forget interruption. I thought it was iffy whenever it only removed energy, but now that Guilt drains energy it is pretty solid. Only problem is, as a interruption mesmer, you are going to want to use Shame over this in most cases. 3-4

Hex Breaker: Shatter/Inspired Hex beat this if hex removal is your thing. It's a stance so it won't be removed until it is triggered. 1-2

Ignorance: Some people thought this was a beast to shut down a war/mo's healing signet when that was the trend. Now, there are better things you can do with your energy. 1

Mind Wrack: Interesting skill that I haven't been able to put to use consistently. Since the energy of your target is hidden, you have to combo this with power leak and drain spells. 1-3

Panic: Requires a high attribute to be mildly effective. You better hit more than 2 people, and even then it isn't great. There is better energy denial elsewhere. 1-2

Power Block: I happen to love this skill, although it is pretty unforgiving. If you hit the wrong skill (or no skill at all), you are out of luck. I've had great success stopping many a healing line. 4-5

Power Leak: The best interrupt in the domination line. Best used first, when your target has enough energy to really make this hit home. Like a lot of the interrupts in this line, the recharge time makes misuses unforgiving. 5

Power Spike: Power Leak's little brother. The damage is nothing to scoff at and this spell can be used to aid an attack versus a caster. 4

Shame: In all likelyhood, you will want this over Guilt. Only drawback is that it can't stop a spell currently being cast. 4-5

Shatter Delusions: I've seen some intresting builds involving this. Stacking from mesmer hexes from multiple characters, using it with phantom pain, ect... I think there are better ways to do damage. 1-3 (if you can abuse it)

Shatter Enchantment: Probably more practical as a DD spell instead of enchantment removal. It can remove IW, conjures, and possibly more important things if you are lucky. 25 second recharge is an insult to enchant removal. 1

Shatter Hex: Damage isn't so bad, and it can be used to remove the odd backfire that gets put on you. I guess I would consider it if I knew my monk wasn't packing hex removal. 1-2

Signet of Weariness: If you have nothing else to take, sure. The odds that you have nothing else to take are nil. 1

Wastrel's Worry: Another skill that has caused a lot of different builds. IMO it is not as good as people make it out to be. 1-2.

Fast Casting

Fast Casting Attribute: I think this is a little overated. 8 is the max I would put in it, but usually I end up putting my spare points (less than 8) here. Speeding up interrupts are a non-factor since you are only shaving fractions of a second off of an interrupt. 1-2

Mantra of Recovery: I have never personally used this, but if you can cut it down to 2 energy per cast, you can start to do something interesting things. It is a stance, making it hard to remove. The only negatives are that you are pumping FC to get to this level and it is hard to recast it mid fight. 2-4

Illusion Magic (I have the least experience in this attribute)

Arcane Conundrum: Pretty good at what it does. Best used in combination with Migrane. Although you won't get a good use out of Conundrum if it is removed early. 3-4

Arcane Echo: Pick a good skil, arcane echo it. The use of this skill depends what you are planning to echo. 1-5

Clumsiness: If your goal is to kill warriors via dots and such, this should probably be on your skill bar. Lower score just because I think you shouldn't be killing warriors/rangers, just trying to disable them. 2-3

Conjure Phantasm: Basic dot here. You will want a decent attribute to use this. 3-4

Crippling Anguish: From experience, mesmer snares are second to pin down from a ranger. Health degen and a faster recharge time than Imagined Burden makes this alright, but there are better elites. 2-3

Distortion: Some IW users swear by this, other don't. Be sure to push Illusion so you only get the one energy drain out of this. 3

Echo: Is what you want to echo a spell? Then use arcane echo. If not, use this. Depends on what you are echo'ing. 1-4

Ethereal Burden: Poor man's snare. It isn't always ready when you need it, but if your group needs a secondary snare, this fills the roll nicely. 3

Fevered Dreams: For specific builds dealing lots of conditions. If you can't spread more than 2 conditions, I wouldn't consider using it. Since "On fire" is a condition, there might be possible combos with fire and this. 2-3

Fragility: You've seen enough builds using this. "On fire" is the best way to take advantage of this skill. If you aren't dealing with a lot of conditions, it is ignored. 4

Illusion of Haste: Can be used as long as your energy doesn't run out. A better speed increase than sprint and an enchantment that can protect IW. 3

Illusion of Weakness: Specific combos require this (Chiron's Balance). If you aren't using it in a combo, it could be a life saver. But it does take up a skill slot. 3

Illusionary Weaponry: Lots of builds have popped up because of this. I've seen mes/wars with and without a weapon attribute as well as a mesmer who switches to a weapon when this becomes available. Right now enchantment removal isn't popular, so this is a safe choice. Just make a build around it. 4-5

Imagined Burden: 15 energy for the same thing as cripple. Again, if your team doesn't have a snare, it should be used. 3

Ineptitude: Blindness is the main draw here. I'm not sure how long it lasts, so I can't reall comment. 2

Migraine: Stacked with Arcane Conundrum it takes the target 4 times as long to cast. That opens the door for lots of interrupts or a concussion shot. Health degen won't kill anyone. 4

Phantom Pain: A lesser phantom pain with a deep wound. I don't like it that much, but people use it with fragility. 2-3

Soothing Images: This skill will really depend on how popular adrenaline skills are at the moment. There is more reliable warrior hate in the illusion line, but this has the possibility of knocking out 3 skills. 2-3

Sympathetic Visage: Too easy to switch targets and not life saving. Although if a warrior doesn't know what is going on, this works. 2

Unnatural Signet: If you have a fetish for a) removing rituals or b) doing nothing for 40 seconds, this is for you. Please, don't use it. -2

Inspiration Magic

Channeling: Possible to spam a spell back by their casters, or use it to protect a more important enchantment. 2-3

Drain Enchantment: I'd take shatter over this, but this can be good for energy tight builds that want enchantment removal. 1

<Anything> Resistance, Mantra of <Anything>: Can be used to cover holes in armor at best. Or, if a popular build is spreading based on a certain type of damage, it might be possible to take the matching resistance. For now, leave them all off your bar. 1

Ether Feast: A nice self heal that should be used if you expect to be sacrificing life or going behind enemy lines. 4

Energy Drain: A pretty good way to gain energy. Take it if there is no better elite out there. 3-4

Energy Tap: Not good enough to match Power Drain. Only take it if you badly need the energy. 2-3

Ether Lord: There are better ways to gain and drain energy. Some people love this though. 2

Inspired Enchantment: Lowest recast time of a single enchantment removal for the mesmer. Heck, you might get an enchantment you can use at that particular time. 1

Inspired Hex: You will gain an acceptable amount of energy from this. The recharge time is double that of shatter hex though. You are more likely to get something useful from this than inspired enchantment. 2-3

Keystone Signet: I haven't really seen this. Until someone comes up with a killer signet build, leave it at home. Possible? 1

Leech Signet: If you are really tight on energy, this can be used. Energy Drain has a better return though. 1-2

Mantra of Concentration: Maybe for monks? I still think there are better things to do with your skill slots. 1

Mantra of Inscriptions: Same thing as Keystone Signet. 1

Mantra of Recall: Better ways to get your energy. 1

Mantra of Resolve: Possible uses, but there are better elites. 1-2

Mantra of Signets: Same as Keystone Signet. 1

Power Drain: Probably the one of the top reasons to pick up inspiration. Has a great energy swing, and can be used to stop anything from a fire AoE to a res. 5

Spirit Shackles: Possible use on rangers, or even out-of-energy wand users. It doesn't really fit in with anything else form this line though. 2-3

Spirit of Failure: There are better ways to regain energy available in this line. 2

Unlinked

Arcane Mimicry: Let someone choose your skills for you! Bad. 0

Epidemic: Merely OK, but if you were dealing with conditions, you would have fragility and possibly fevered dreams already. 1

Signet of Humility: Only in specific builds can lacking an elite be crushing. Even then, the elite would have to have a short recharge time to really be hurt by this. 1

Signet of Midnight: Can get that annoying war off you back for a little while. Again, I don't know how long the target is blinded, so I can't really comment. I'd like to have another elite though. 1

PointBlankx · Feb 24, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

i think thats ok i might try mesmer on this next event on the 18th

Draken · Feb 24, 2005, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Hex Breaker: Shatter/Inspired Hex beat this if hex removal is your thing. It's a stance so it won't be removed until it is triggered. 1-2

I have to disagree with you on this one since alot of people cast the spells they dont want removed first then try and cover them with a hex. So this catches backfire and other problem spells. Since it has a long duration (120 seconds or so at domination 8) you have long since gotten the mana back for this spell and its ready to be used again when something breaks it. I often was able to recast it as soon as it droped so i could catch two hexes. Most of the time i wasnt in range for shatter to be of benifit anyway and its cost was prohibitive also the recharge on inspired and drain were worse. I would give this a 3-4.

Precur · Feb 24, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Thanks Sleeky !! .. lets keep these coming folks .

Pax

Ensign · Feb 24, 2005, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Just how many times can you write that a skill is terrible before your hands go numb?

Backfire is somewhat overrated. Why? 15 energy, 3 second cast, 20 second cooldown. It does have an excellent effect, shutting someone down hard, but it is priced appropriately. It's a solid skill that a lot of builds are going to want to use, but it's far from being a must have.

The entire point of Chaos Storm is to make people move. It's like Firestorm in that regard - you drop it on a clump, make everyone stop what they're doing and scatter, and get a bit of incidental damage in the process. I think Chaos Storm is better than Firestorm, myself, but that perhaps speaks to my low opinion of Firestorm as anything other than a skill to chase people away.

Mind Wrack is terrible, for many of the same reasons Wastrel's Worry is terrible.

Panic still costs 25 energy.

Power Block is ok, but I'm not too excited about it as an elite. Effect for effect, I'd rather have Power Leak or Power Drain. Most characters are diverse enough that they can work around the lockdown from Block, and the energy cost and cooldown are killer. I think it's clearly in the 'use if you have nothing better' category.

Shatter Delusions is so bad it isn't funny - it has a complete lack of synergy with winning. I was laughing when I saw that it was a starter skill.

Arcane Conundrum is better than Backfire, in my experience. It isn't as fire and forget, but it's effectively slapping daze onto someone for 25 seconds. Hard to argue with that. It's cheaper and casts more quickly, too. I think the only reason it gets overlooked is because it's in Illusion.

Arcane Echo is one of the few tools available that lets you get around the elite mechanic. Take your favorite Elite skill, Arcane Echo, go nuts. One of the best skills in the game, there's no way this one doesn't get a 5.

Distortion was too terrible for words. Then they made it worse.

Energy Drain is one of the best elites in the game. This isn't just an energy replenishment tool - though it is an outstanding one - it's one of the best energy denial tools in the game. At level 12 you're looking at hitting someone for close to 54 energy per minute - well over half of what they'd regenerate in that time. This isn't a 'if there's nothing better' skill, it's one of those skills that you take the attribute for.

Some people love Ether Lord. Some people don't mind being in the loser's bracket. These two groups tend to have a lot of crossover. Ether Lord isn't energy regeneration - it's a big waste of energy for everyone involved. Except it often hurts you more. Use this only if you're one of those Mesmer/Necro players who just *has* to show that he's smarter than everyone by making terrible skills work. While failing.

Mantra of Recall - boy, did they trash this skill or what?

Peace,
-CxE

Draken · Feb 24, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Distortion was too terrible for words. Then they made it worse.

When i used it during the beta weekend distortion costed 5 mana had 0 cast time, a 5 second duration and 5 second recast rate. which is not what is currently shown in the skill list here... so... this might be why people thought it was worthless or mabye it changed monday morning?

If you havent used it in the incarnation i have shown above it would probably suck with its new form its actually decent. I was using it to cover my healing signet so i didnt get owned by the 2x damage. With max illusion it was actually affordable and unless i had more then 2 mobs/enemies on me i didnt worry about how much mana i was sucking down heck when i was using it i wasnt worried about mana at all i was running for my life

.

i would actually rate it a 4 for an IW build but any other build its a 1.

sorry i didnt get a picture of the skill i just didnt see that it was diffrent till today...

Spura · Feb 24, 2005, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Actually to be frank...any damage skill on mesmer, monk or necro sucks.
It is just the way it is. Why? Because 1 orison heals 110 for 5 energy. And these classes generally have 10-15 energy skills that deal 60-100 damage. Even highly conditional skills like Putrid explosion or Mind wrack don't do more damage per energy than orison heals per energy. Never Mind Word Of Healing.
Unless arena.net starts packing secondary effects on damage skills on smite attribute, mesmer and necro, those attributes will be used purely for non-damage purposes.

Postopac · Feb 24, 2005, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Oh my favourite class

I have played many hours with mesmers and must say that this class can offer a lot of versatility to a skilled player.

I'll only comment skills that I have found worth putting on your skill belt as it would take eons to discuss every single skill.

Quote:

Signet of Midnight: Can get that annoying war off you back for a little while. Again, I don't know how long the target is blinded, so I can't really comment. I'd like to have another elite though. 1

I have found this skill to be really effective coupled with Plague Touch, as it enables you to concentrate on your target when those annoying warriors head your way. I predict that mesmers will soon be high on "who to hit first" list. With SoM and PT you can focus on your targets more easily. Also this combo is great defensive strat, as you can qutie effectively protect your monks, if they get under beating from warriors. It also works nicely on rangers.
The duration is between 10-13 seconds.

Quote:

Epidemic: Merely OK, but if you were dealing with conditions, you would have fragility and possibly fevered dreams already. 1

Fragility and fevered dreams are both in illusion line, which I find not as good as domination line. Inspiration is almost a must for mesmers, as most of mesmer skills are heavy on mana. If you are building condition based build, epidemic is worth looking into. Especially if mesmers will interrupt condition removals.

Quote:

Spirit of Failure: There are better ways to regain energy available in this line. 2

Another skill that well complements Signet of Midnight. Put SoM and SoF on warr and you have unlimited mana poll

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Leech Signet: If you are really tight on energy, this can be used. Energy Drain has a better return though. 1-2

If you think of it, this skill has 0 cost, it's signet, at 12 inspiration you get 13 mana while with power drain you get 20 mana (25-5). Why I pack this skill is the ability to interrupt any skill not only spells. It's great when interrupting troll unguent, heal signet, monk signets (purge signet comes to mind).

Quote:

Wastrel's Worry: Another skill that has caused a lot of different builds. IMO it is not as good as people make it out to be. 1-2.

Hope the debate about wastrel's worry will transmit here as it belongs here

Why I think this skill deserves an attention is quite subtle, and in skilled hands one can get great results out of it.
First thing I would like to point out are it's stats. 5 mana cost 1 second recharge! 1 second cast. If you are playing specialised mesmer (14-15 domination) one cast is potentialy 60-64 dmg.
Skilled player will want to make certainty out of potentiality:
Interrupting spells make WW do damage. Note power spike and WW together are hitting for 160 - 170 damage.
Putting backfire on target make WW do damage.
Running enemy make WW do damage.

As was mentioned before, soul barbs also add nice bonus to WW resulting in 70-80 dmg per cast for 5 mana with 1 second recharge. Rarely any skill has such a potential when dealing damage for such a low cost.

Quote:

Shatter Hex: Damage isn't so bad, and it can be used to remove the odd backfire that gets put on you. I guess I would consider it if I knew my monk wasn't packing hex removal. 1-2

Again for skilled player, this skill is a hidden bomb! In practice I have been doing massive damage, both in GvG's and tombs. Your warriors are most likely to get hexed very soon in battle, if you time it right, you can deal 1000 damage per cast. Hardly and AoE can cope with that. Removing backfire from monks is just a bonus.

I'll end this post with a build that I have been playing lately and provided great fun playing.

Me/Ne - specialised caster takedown/shutdown
14 or 16 domination (12base +1mask +1or+3 from rune) 11 inspiration (10 base + 1minor rune) 9 fast cast (8 base +1minor rune)

Skill set: Leech signet (or Power leak), Wastrel's worry, Power drain, Signet of midnight, Plague touch (or Spirit of Failure), Power spike, Shatter hex, Backfire

The purpose is to take down monks/mesmers/elementalist. Signet of midnight and plague touch are there to prevent warriors to get in your way.

Have a nice day!

Narcism · Feb 24, 2005, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Nice post Sleeky... I'm a long-time Mesmer player... so I'll throw in my opinion.

a)Backfire moves down to a 1-2 on my list... Why? it has such a priority when it comes to Hex removal on an experienced team, that you'll hardly get more than 3-5 seconds out of it, not to mention, it just cost 15 energy and you're waiting for it to recharge in 20 seconds.

b)Diversion moves down to a 3 on my list... Why? I mean, the cast time may look tasty, but there are a whole lot better things you can do with 10 energy. BUT, this skill works extremely well if you're doing nothing but chain-casting on monks (eg. E/Me, Hitting Diversion then Tab to next Monk, Diversion, etc.) Is it a must-have? hardly.

c) Empathy gets a 4 from me in the PvE because monsters are stupid... but I agree, 1 in PvP.

d) Ignorance, I disagree with you completely. I personally am a huge fan of this skill. Not for Healing Signet, I don't give a shit about Warriors spamming that, but, if you backfire a monk, he would often resort to casting Signet of Devotion and not taking any damage.

Combined with an Energy Denial Build or an Interrupt Build (since most of your interrupts can't stop skills, but only spells), this can 100% shut down a healer.

I would have rated it a 4 had it been 10 energy, but the 15 brings it to a 3.

e) Echo gets a 1 because it takes an Elite slot, regardless of what you Echo. There aren't many skills that can be great when Echos, on the other hand, there are quite a bit of spells that can be great when double up.

f) Phantom Pain gets a 1 because it's a crummy duration, as well as a crummy effect, even at attribute 12, we're looking at 3 degen over 10 seconds. I'll make use of a Necromancer secondary if I want degen.

g) Energy Drain gets a 2 from me, I'd use Energy Tap over it.

Mumblyfish · Feb 24, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

f) Phantom Pain gets a 1 because it's a crummy duration, as well as a crummy effect, even at attribute 12, we're looking at 3 degen over 10 seconds. I'll make use of a Necromancer secondary if I want degen.

I'll have to disagree, here. Granted, the health degeneration is pathetic, but that's not why anyone picks the spell up. Phantom Pain causes a Deep Wound after the degen, on an Illusion-heavy character, that can lower the target's maximum HP by 20% for around 20 seconds. 20 seconds can be a long time, and at lv20 you're looking at lowering the target's potential HP by 100, making them far more vulnerable to to concentrated fire. The skill's doubly effective when Deep Wound kicks in if the target is near full health. A good skill to use against melee and casters alike.

It's not fantastic, but certainly not as bad as you're making it out to be. As I can see, the only drawback is the 15 energy cost and lengthy cast/recast times.

Narcism · Feb 24, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

I mean, sure Deep Wound and such can be useful, but if I have 10 energy and a choice to cast any 10 energy spell on the target from the Mesmer skill line... it wouldn't be something I would use. Especially since it is rare to spec 12 in Illusion to get that -3 Degen (Illusionary Weaponers can be the exception here). As well, Phantom Pain is 10 Energy (I think it was cut down from 15 Energy).

mostro · Feb 24, 2005, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postopac

Interrupting spells make WW do damage. Note power spike and WW together are hitting for 160 - 170 damage.

Is this true? My understanding is that when the enemy starts using any skill, Wastrel Worry is going to be cancelled regardless whether that skill is eventually interrupted or not.

I used to think that Wastrel Worry is pretty good, but after being hit with it on the tomb I found it somewhat lacking. Most of the time I can find a skill to use within the 3 second that Wastrel Worry is going to take effect. My opinion is that you are gambling your 5 mana when you use this spell; and it may or may not pay off.

Postopac · Feb 24, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by mostro

Is this true? My understanding is that when the enemy starts using any skill, Wastrel Worry is going to be cancelled regardless whether that skill is eventually interrupted or not.

I used to think that Wastrel Worry is pretty good, but after being hit with it on the tomb I found it somewhat lacking. Most of the time I can find a skill to use within the 3 second that Wastrel Worry is going to take effect. My opinion is that you are gambling your 5 mana when you use this spell; and it may or may not pay off.

If you interrupt skill, WW will take effect. Also if you cast 2 second spell after 1 second has passed, you'll get hit by it.

Sleeky101 · Feb 24, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draken

I have to disagree with you on this one since alot of people cast the spells they dont want removed first then try and cover them with a hex. So this catches backfire and other problem spells. Since it has a long duration (120 seconds or so at domination 8) you have long since gotten the mana back for this spell and its ready to be used again when something breaks it. I often was able to recast it as soon as it droped so i could catch two hexes. Most of the time i wasnt in range for shatter to be of benifit anyway and its cost was prohibitive also the recharge on inspired and drain were worse. I would give this a 3-4.

You will get a lot more utility out of a target ally hex removal, though. That is why it is rated so low.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The entire point of Chaos Storm is to make people move.

I guess I'm not a fan of over-time AoE's then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Power Block is ok, but I'm not too excited about it as an elite. Effect for effect, I'd rather have Power Leak or Power Drain. Most characters are diverse enough that they can work around the lockdown from Block, and the energy cost and cooldown are killer. I think it's clearly in the 'use if you have nothing better' category.

I found it to work well because most healers I dealt with speced in DF/(Healing or Proc)/ (secondary class). Granted, this was probably because the healer pre-fabs were mostly narrow. This skill really depends on how many tri-spec DF/Healing/Proc monks you expect to see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Mantra of Recall - boy, did they trash this skill or what?

They needed to. Canceling it whenever you wanted to clearly wasn't what they had in mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Unless arena.net starts packing secondary effects on damage skills on smite attribute, mesmer and necro, those attributes will be used purely for non-damage purposes.

Couldn't agree more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postopac

I have found this skill to be really effective coupled with Plague Touch, as it enables you to concentrate on your target when those annoying warriors head your way. I predict that mesmers will soon be high on "who to hit first" list. With SoM and PT you can focus on your targets more easily. Also this combo is great defensive strat, as you can qutie effectively protect your monks, if they get under beating from warriors. It also works nicely on rangers.

If you really want to hamper warriors, use the necro curse line. Sure, SoM and Plague touch is OK warrior/ranger hate- but there are better war/ran hate characters out there. Don't make the mesmer do something he isn't good at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postopac

Hope the debate about wastrel's worry will transmit here as it belongs here Why I think this skill deserves an attention is quite subtle, and in skilled hands one can get great results out of it.

Again, don't make the mesmer do something he isn't good at- dealing damage. This pales in comparison anyway to damage you are certain to do from other characters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

Ignorance, I disagree with you completely. I personally am a huge fan of this skill. Not for Healing Signet, I don't give a shit about Warriors spamming that, but, if you backfire a monk, he would often resort to casting Signet of Devotion and not taking any damage.

I'd be happy to bring a monk down to signet of devotion (no DF bonus) and switch to his friend chaincasting OoH. Like you said, it is great when they need to use signet of devotion, by I would rather take another skill to make sure they can only use signet of devotion.

Draken · Feb 24, 2005, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Spura stacking for signet of midnight and spirit of failure doesnt work how you might want it too their is no benefit to spirit of failure when using blind.

Here and is a thread about that...

Narcism · Feb 24, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

I'd be happy to bring a monk down to signet of devotion (no DF bonus) and switch to his friend chaincasting OoH. Like you said, it is great when they need to use signet of devotion, by I would rather take another skill to make sure they can only use signet of devotion.

Yeah, but like I was saying, you can combine that with an energy denial or heavy interrupting build and completely disable a caster... instead of, they can only use SoD...

Ensign · Feb 24, 2005, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postopac

If you think of it, this skill has 0 cost, it's signet, at 12 inspiration you get 13 mana while with power drain you get 20 mana (25-5).

The killer on Leech Signet is the 45 second recycle. As an interrupt it doesn't have that great of an effect, and the fact that you can't use it very often just kills it. It's true that it can interrupt anything and not just a spell, but just what non-spells are you trying to interrupt? Just stopping a random attack skill accomplishes very little, plus you don't get the energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postopac

Hope the debate about wastrel's worry will transmit here as it belongs here

Why I think this skill deserves an attention is quite subtle, and in skilled hands one can get great results out of it.

It's a skill that lets you kick a bad player in the teeth after you've already beaten him. It's a skill that demonstrates just how well the victim understands the game - good players barely care about the skill and mentally pump the fist when it's cast upon them, scrubs run around like headless chickens and start making all kinds of mistakes. As long as you're worried about beating bad players than Wastrel's Worry has a place, but it has no business being anywhere near a competitive match.

As I've said elsewhere, Wastrel's Worry is probably the best teacher of any skill in the game. Discussion of that skill doesn't belong here, it deserves its own thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

a)Backfire moves down to a 1-2 on my list... Why? it has such a priority when it comes to Hex removal on an experienced team, that you'll hardly get more than 3-5 seconds out of it, not to mention, it just cost 15 energy and you're waiting for it to recharge in 20 seconds.

Right - the effect is solid, but you really are paying the price for an effect that strong. I think that you really have to look at the skill as something that shuts down a caster for those 5 seconds until the hex removal comes, and since hex removal takes a couple seconds it buys you around 7-8 seconds overall. Calling it a 1-2 is pretty unfair, especially since you're giving away fives the way you do blowjobs, but it's far from a must-have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

b)Diversion moves down to a 3 on my list...

You could just say that Diversion is fair now. I still think it's one of the better Domination skills for fighting off all the spam skills being tossed around, but if you don't have room you just don't have room. It's better than Backfire in any case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcism

d) Ignorance, I disagree with you completely.

Dude, stop messing with Monks under Backfire. They aren't doing anything meaningful anyway. Signet of Devotion? Give me a break. Go do something significant to the other Monk. You have much better things to do with 15 energy.

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Originally Posted by Narcism

this can 100% shut down a healer.

You have to ask yourself if there's a practical difference between 90% shutting down a healer, and 100% shutting down a healer. At what point are you no longer improving your chances of victory and just rubbing it in?

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Originally Posted by Narcism

g) Energy Drain gets a 2 from me, I'd use Energy Tap over it.

Is this your way of saying 'I'd rather use Power Block because I /kneel for interrupts'? I can understand taking Power Block or Illusionary Weaponry over Energy Drain if either of those fit your build better (though I'd generally take Energy Drain over Power Block), but that's just choosing between the good elites. I don't know what you're smoking that would make you take Energy Tap over Energy Drain - let me know, though, I can market it and make us millions.

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Originally Posted by Sleeky101

I guess I'm not a fan of over-time AoE's then.

They're not bad tactically but Chaos Storm suffers from just being on the wrong character - Mesmers just aren't looking out for packs to drop a Chaos Storm on, they're looking for a Monk to nail to the wall. It's just relevant to keep Chaos Storm in mind since it's the best skill of its type out there.

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Originally Posted by Sleeky101

This skill really depends on how many tri-spec DF/Healing/Proc monks you expect to see.

That plays a significant role in the effectiveness of Power Block, certainly - if they're running both Healing and Protection skills, along with Signet of Devotion, Power Block is decent but unimpressive. If you can catch a pure healer with it, it's significantly better, acting like a Concussion Shot.

Don't get me wrong, Power Block is a solid skill with a powerful effect. I wouldn't rip anyone for running it on an interrupt heavy build. My issues with it are similar to the issues with Backfire - the effect is powerful, but you pay the price for that effect. 15 energy, a 30 second cooldown, and giving up your elite slot are not trivial costs by any stretch. Plus, as I said before it is no better than the third best Mesmer interrupt, after Power Leak and Power Drain.

If it wasn't elite it would be on the short list of skills that you always run if you've specced Domination. As an elite, though, I don't think it compares favorably to Energy Drain / Illusionary Weaponry / whatever you can get from your other class. But if none of those other elites fit Power Block becomes automatic.

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Originally Posted by Sleeky101

They needed to. Canceling it whenever you wanted to clearly wasn't what they had in mind.

Bah, cancelling it whenever you wanted clearly was what they had in mind. What they didn't intend was for people to cast it and immediately cancel it to regen a ton of energy. It was supposed to be an energy battery, a skill you used pre-combat to give yourself that one time refill. Now it's uncontrollable and isn't even particularly useful as a battery.

I think it's due for some further tweaking. The effect I'd use is:

"For 30...78 seconds, if your energy is zero, you gain 20...30 energy and Mantra of Recall ends."

That preserves the functionality, gives the player control over when it ends (indeed, it now ends exactly when you'd want it to), and makes the cast/cancel trick possible but more difficult to pull off. Kick up the cooldown a bit if that's a problem. It's a great idea for a skill so I hate seeing it flounder around, looking for the template that finally fits it.

Peace,
-CxE

Sajittarius · Jul 08, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

good guide, though i have to say ensign probably is more like me personality-wise cuz everything he said i agree with...

the only thing i would add is i rate blackout 4-5 because the ability to shut down ANY job (not just monks, though i do enjoy nailing monks to the wall as someone else in this thread noted) for 7 seconds and then being able to cast something else 2 seconds before that person is ready is just too good to pass up. Maybe its the pickup groups i get in HoH never get more than 1 mesmer and I'm focusing (or multitasking depending on your viewpoint) on 3 monks at a time... Yea it used to be ranged but they probably realized shutting someone down from far was ridiculously overpowered. Even if their hex removal is good, and they get the backfire off in 2-3 seconds u can shutdown a monk for 10-11 seconds easy combining blackout+backfire.

I also don't agree with the way ppl prize power interrupts either, the benefits of them are good, but the price of missing is too costly in my book. Then again, maybe i just suck at interrupting spells :P

Ensign · Jul 08, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Look at the dates on these posts. This 'guide' to Mesmer skills was written back in February, in an age when everyone was still drooling at interrupts and thought that dealing damage with Mind Wrack and Wastrel's Worry was the pinnacle of the Mesmer's existance. Stacking hexes onto someone until they could no longer do anything was a popular strategy. Also, several of the skills listed worked differently back then, which explains some of the differences in the ratings.

It's kinda funny in retrospect, seeing what we got right about being good, and what we got wrong.

Peace,
-CxE

salja Wachi · Jul 08, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spura

Actually to be frank...any damage skill on mesmer, monk or necro sucks.
It is just the way it is. Why? Because 1 orison heals 110 for 5 energy. And these classes generally have 10-15 energy skills that deal 60-100 damage. Even highly conditional skills like Putrid explosion or Mind wrack don't do more damage per energy than orison heals per energy. Never Mind Word Of Healing.
Unless arena.net starts packing secondary effects on damage skills on smite attribute, mesmer and necro, those attributes will be used purely for non-damage purposes.

ever hear of "desecrate enchantemnts"? does 60 direct and 20 extra for any enchantment to ALL FOES IN THE AREA. that can mean up to 150 damage per person. les see yoru monk orison all of them while he is being shutdown.

my bet is you do not have a necro mesmer or monk which is why you make blanket statements that are laughable.

i have 3 necro skills alone that if i hit you back to back to back i can almost kill you outright.